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Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Starbuck
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby Starbuck » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:53 pm

Hi Pim,

pimgmx wrote:We decided to do it the 'proper way' and use correct parts, rather than Raymond welding lugs onto the existing arms.


Highly recommended as those arms aren't made from particularly heavy gauge steel - the correct arms aren't expensive anyway. Unless you are planning to install the bushes turned 90 degrees to sharpen the rear suspension a bit it is much easier to buy them with the bushes already fitted.

Be ready for a bitch-fight (guess of all people I can say that?) getting the bushes off their mounting posts on the body shell. The bolts generally come out quite easily but the inner sleeve of the bush is often 'welded' to the post. Sometimes the only way to get them off is cut away the rubber from around the outside of the inner sleeve and remove the arm, then carefully grind through one side of the inner sleeve with an angle grinder and get a suitable lever in between the two layers of steel and chisel them apart. Once off just clean everything up thoroughly and use anti-sieze when you refit the new arms.

Good hunting,

Starbuck
'94 XJ12 (and other toys)

pimgmx
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:07 pm
Location: South East of the Netherlands

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby pimgmx » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:24 am

Starbuck wrote:...inner sleeve of the bush is often 'welded' to the post...

That normally never happens on Jags! [/Pinocchio mode]
I had just the same with a few of the Sovereign's front suspension bushes, not the most pleasant surprises of that restore. :oops:

All I can do is cross my fingers and hope that the low mileage of the XJ-S will also be kind to me in this area...
I followed your advice and ordered a pair of pre-bushed radius arms, another nice little winter job added to the list!


PS: finished the Allan Scott book last night, that was VERY well worth the read!

the daily: 01 S8 http://bit.ly/2kIwP4m
the tractor: 77 LaRo LW https://bit.ly/2Hr9n6y
the eyecatcher: 93 Insignia http://bit.ly/1iGrmsU
the GT: 89 XJS http://bit.ly/1WQGpC5
the project: 95 X306 http://bit.ly/1cW11DN
the pocket rocket: 97 Z3 http://bit.ly/12IfE7B
the ex: 93 3.2 http://bit.ly/14GTNrq

Starbuck
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Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby Starbuck » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:53 am

Hi Pim,

Even with no other suspension modifications you will find installation of the rear bar makes the XJS a much nicer handler. It loses its 'safe' understeer that was designed to stop customers in certain markets suing Jaguar for their own driving shortcomings.

I personally think the Allan Scott book is a 'must' for every Jaguar fan, not just fans of the XJS. It was an almighty effort to get the XJS to such a competitive state and it did wonders for Jaguar's reputation to be involved in racing at that level and resulted in the offshoot TWR road car program. You will now have a very good idea of the sorts of modifications that are worth doing to the V12 too 8-)

Best,

Starbuck
'94 XJ12 (and other toys)

pimgmx
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Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby pimgmx » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:34 pm

pimgmx wrote:...ordered a pair of pre-bushed radius arms...

Just updating the topic, albeit the news is minimal:
radius arms have arrived and found their place in ye olde parts shed...

Image

Won't be fitted any time soon, got a book to finish first! :roll:

the daily: 01 S8 http://bit.ly/2kIwP4m
the tractor: 77 LaRo LW https://bit.ly/2Hr9n6y
the eyecatcher: 93 Insignia http://bit.ly/1iGrmsU
the GT: 89 XJS http://bit.ly/1WQGpC5
the project: 95 X306 http://bit.ly/1cW11DN
the pocket rocket: 97 Z3 http://bit.ly/12IfE7B
the ex: 93 3.2 http://bit.ly/14GTNrq

leo_denmark
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Location: Denmark

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby leo_denmark » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:13 pm

pimgmx wrote:
pimgmx wrote:...ordered a pair of pre-bushed radius arms...

Just updating the topic, albeit the news is minimal:
radius arms have arrived and found their place in ye olde parts shed...

Image

Won't be fitted any time soon, got a book to finish first! :roll:


Are these triangular pieces threaded and welded on and supposed to hold rear anti roll bar ? Looks pretty flimsy to me, but it's probably similar design as mine...

I've finished the book, and it was great. According to Allan Scott TWR didn't use rear ARB on their XJ-S. Their cars looks well balanced on video, but racing and road use is far from the same thing.
BR Leo Jensen - Denmark
Image
XJ40 3.2 LHD 1992 (VIN: ...660341). Owned since Nov 9th 2005
XJ-S V12 coupe 1977 (SW53309BW). Owned since April 28th 2016. http://www.xj-s.dk/home/
Citroën 2CV 1975. Owned since Sep 1st 1984
Board member of Jaguar Club of Denmark

pimgmx
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Location: South East of the Netherlands

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby pimgmx » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:46 pm

leo_denmark wrote:Are these triangular pieces threaded and welded on and supposed to hold rear anti roll bar ? Looks pretty flimsy to me

That was my first thought when I unwrapped them.
I'll probably go full anorak mode on the radius arms: strip the paint on/around the lugs, bring out the MIG to PROPERLY attach the lugs and finish with a coat of paint.

leo_denmark wrote:I've finished the book, and it was great.

Can't disagree with that... ;)
A big 'thank you' to Starbuck for spreading the Allan Scott gospel!
Several people including our resident XJ-S guru Starbuck recommended the rear ARB, I'll find out quick enough whether I like it or not. 8-)

the daily: 01 S8 http://bit.ly/2kIwP4m
the tractor: 77 LaRo LW https://bit.ly/2Hr9n6y
the eyecatcher: 93 Insignia http://bit.ly/1iGrmsU
the GT: 89 XJS http://bit.ly/1WQGpC5
the project: 95 X306 http://bit.ly/1cW11DN
the pocket rocket: 97 Z3 http://bit.ly/12IfE7B
the ex: 93 3.2 http://bit.ly/14GTNrq

Starbuck
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Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby Starbuck » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:55 pm

Hi Pim and Leo,

The rear suspension of the TWR race cars bears little resemblance to the road cars. I had the privilege of poking around under the car that lives here in Melbourne when it was up on the hoist, and although the general layout is the same you would be lucky to find any standard parts. Brakes are 'free' on International Group A and the rear brakes are outboard (bearing in mind these are early 80s cars) and massive AP items, location of the suspension arms is very different, the arms are different, the hub carriers are fabricated items, etc etc.

What I liked the most about Allan Scott's book is that it covers Jaguar's racing program in broader terms than just restricting it to the XJS program. It was interesting to read about some of the politics involved in TWRs dealing with a company that had only recently escaped the 'clutches' of British Leyland and all that entailed. As an owner of an XJS and a 635CSi - the two 'natural enemies' in Grp A - it was also interesting to read about the 'cheats' that both sides used to stretch the regulations as far as they could stretch them without getting caught out! I think most Jaguar enthusiasts would get a lot from Allan Scott's book.

The rear ARB links attach to the 'U' shaped bracket welded on above the small end bush on the trailing arms - no need to get the MIG out (and if you did you would have to press out the small end bush).

Most of the Pre HE XJS V12s had a rear roll bar (in fact all up to a point if I remember correctly), removing it to turn the car into a terminal understeerer at the limit was a nod to the litigious US market where any car that oversteered was considered 'dangerous'. I'm not sure how plowing headlong into an oncoming car is a better option in court than getting your tail clipped, but, there you go :roll: I guess they figured most drivers should know enough to back off the throttle once understeer starts, but with the very light power steering on the standard car I'm not sure that most people would be able to detect it before it was too late.

With a standard V12 front bar and the addition of a rear bar you will find your XJS is a little more 'tail happy', but it will also feel much more stable before you get to the limit and will turn in to corners much more nicely (important with so much engine hanging out the front). Try to eventually track down a V12 'sport' front bar to go with the rear one if you can as this will make the car handle like the pre-HE cars did - removing the odd 'kneeling' on an front corner the HE has.

Best,

Starbuck
'94 XJ12 (and other toys)

pimgmx
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Location: South East of the Netherlands

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby pimgmx » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:52 am

Starbuck wrote:...I had the privilege of poking around under the car that lives here in Melbourne when it was up on the hoist...

Thanks for the first-hand insight!

And the world of sporty Jaguars IS as small as you might think; one of the contributors to the Dunkeld book was also - briefly - involved in that TWR adventure...

the daily: 01 S8 http://bit.ly/2kIwP4m
the tractor: 77 LaRo LW https://bit.ly/2Hr9n6y
the eyecatcher: 93 Insignia http://bit.ly/1iGrmsU
the GT: 89 XJS http://bit.ly/1WQGpC5
the project: 95 X306 http://bit.ly/1cW11DN
the pocket rocket: 97 Z3 http://bit.ly/12IfE7B
the ex: 93 3.2 http://bit.ly/14GTNrq

pimgmx
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Posts: 3149
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:07 pm
Location: South East of the Netherlands

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby pimgmx » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:44 pm

Another upgrade acquired: a used set of larger "AJ6 Engineering" air filter boxes & throttle bodies...
The car will be off to the bodyshop as early in the New Year as possible, time for some project progress with this one!

Image

Image

the daily: 01 S8 http://bit.ly/2kIwP4m
the tractor: 77 LaRo LW https://bit.ly/2Hr9n6y
the eyecatcher: 93 Insignia http://bit.ly/1iGrmsU
the GT: 89 XJS http://bit.ly/1WQGpC5
the project: 95 X306 http://bit.ly/1cW11DN
the pocket rocket: 97 Z3 http://bit.ly/12IfE7B
the ex: 93 3.2 http://bit.ly/14GTNrq

naki_k
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Posts: 28095
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: Also bitten by the XJ-S bug...

Postby naki_k » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:58 pm

A bit of extra poke for the big 12? What are the suggested figures?
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
93 6.0 XJ81 DD6 x2
93 6.0 XJ81 XJ12
94 4.0 XJR
94 4.0 Daimler
96 4.0 X306 XJR
96 4.0 X300 D6
97 4.0 X300 Sport Manual
2000 LR Discovery ES TD5 A
Breaking 40/ 300


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