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'92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

james08
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby james08 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 pm

if only i had time and space :|
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david
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Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby david » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:06 am

I went down to the body shop again yesterday to see my car – particularly to discover what lies inside the bulkhead. I was worried about what’s going on inside the bulkhead, under the scuttle. Last time I saw my car, I poked my finger down the hole here and felt the rust flakes give way down below with quite a crunch.

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The same place without the front wing:

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The top scuttle panel has now been removed, revealing the inside of the bulkhead, which, I am relieved to say, is in excellent rust free condition. The brown staining is dust stuck on to a wax coating on the metal, and sitting on top of the seam sealer. It can be scraped off easily to reveal bright paintwork.

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The top of the right hand end piece of the scuttle panel. This is made from very thin metal, unlike the bulkhead below which is of much heavier grade.
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The underside of the same piece of metal. Water has got into this small rectangular compartment then been held there by what remains of the cavity’s foam filling. The foam was described as a rancid gelatinous slime. Water condensing on the underside of the top panel has rotted through the metal over time.

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However, the top panel is the extent of the rust. Despite the brown look on the photograph, the ‘compartment’ floor and sides are not rusty. The discolouration is a mixture of rust flakes and dust. The crunching sensation must have been my finger compressing the flaked remains of the top panel which had dropped through into the cavity. Some of the rust was close in texture to soil.

Overview of the inside of the bulkhead cavity, now the scuttle top panel has been removed:

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Closer in:

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The whole interior of the plenum is in excellent condition – again the brown areas are a wax preservative.

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Photographed from the rear – there is a small area of rust where the bulkhead front meets the inner wing, but nothing more:

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The whole cavity viewed from the right hand side – no rust there:

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The small area of surface rust is the extent of it:
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The left hand side was in similar condition, but cleaner since the top panel was not so bad on this side.

Viewed from above:

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And from the side across the plenum cavity from the left hand side:

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Again the whole structure is rust free:

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Clearly on my car water was not getting into the car from the bulkhead. It could explain why the cabin of mine remained dry, even though the car looked so rusty.

David
Image 1992 Sovereign 3.2 diamond blue (1993 model)

old del boy
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby old del boy » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:41 am

I see that the screen is now out , how did the removal go ? , is it still usable ? , i didn't realise they were going to go that far did you ? , anyhow they really are making sure to get all the rust out and make it like new again aren't they , one thing about your pictures is interesting , the rubber blanking grommet in the corner of the bulkhead on the drivers side could easily be removed and Dinnitrol injected into that area which would really help in preventing rust from eating away that corner for those of us that don't have holes yet ;)

Have they given you a completion date yet ? , bet you can't wait to get her back home eh :)

Derek..
'93 4.0L Daimler, solent blue,
'93 4.0L Daimler, Westminster,
'85 2600 Rover sd1 vdp oporto.

naki_k
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby naki_k » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:15 pm

very thorough and impressive work david. you must be pleased with the relatively rapid progress.
i can see they have scraped out all that stupid white sponge/ foam, from inside the corner cavity. pure evil that stuff.
i think the dinitrol shareholders will be delighted with their dividends after this car is completed.
isn't the brown shading area around the heater intake, surface rust too?

am loving the pink "comfort blanket" too ;) i hope its protecting your spotless engine bay adequately. i need something similar, as i made a bit of mess in my bay after my weldathon.
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nlcrane
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby nlcrane » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:36 pm

It is really commendable the love and effort you guys put into caring for your motors, not to mention the inevitable financial costs involved and all this to preserve these wonderful old ladies that we all seem to be so infatuated with.
This makes me realise how extremely lucky I was to get hold of Sovereign in the mint condition that she is in and believe me I will do my utmost to keep her that way.
Excellent photos David, it is great to be able to follow the change back to pristine state.
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drce
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby drce » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:16 pm

That must have been a big relief given the scene of devastation you were expecting.

It usually works the other way round;car looks lovely and shiny on the surface but hides a myriad of problems underneath.

Also, your enyclopaedic knowledge of the car will now extend to inner wings/bulkhead etc - you may be on your way to guru status!

I can't wait to see the finished article - have you got a completion date?

david
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby david » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:29 am

old del boy wrote:I see that the screen is now out , how did the removal go ? , is it still usable ? , i didn't realise they were going to go that far did you ? , anyhow they really are making sure to get all the rust out and make it like new again aren't they , one thing about your pictures is interesting , the rubber blanking grommet in the corner of the bulkhead on the drivers side could easily be removed and Dinnitrol injected into that area which would really help in preventing rust from eating away that corner for those of us that don't have holes yet ;)

Have they given you a completion date yet ? , bet you can't wait to get her back home eh :)

Derek..


The screen broke when it was removed, but since it was heavily delaminated and had a large chip in it I wasn't surprised by this. I have a new screen to fit anyway so it didn't particularly worry me that it broke. The windscreen man almost got it out intact - I believe it broke right at the end. The rear one came out without a hitch though which was good since I don't have a replacement!!

I was certain there was serious rust lurking in there, so decided the best way was to open the whole thing up so I could see exactly what is going on. I didn't want to have a superficially rust free car that was still quite rusty inside. The scuttle panel is still available from Jaguar and is wrongly listed on the JDHT website as NLA. The part is shared with the X300 and X308.

I agree, spraying Dinitrol into the cavity will be an effective way of preventing rust here. I presume you have removed the white foam which fills the cavity from yours. If not, I certainly would recommend that you do. The foam was absolutely saturated, rancid and had decayed into a gelatinous slime in my car. It really is a rediculous thing for Jaguar to have done, my guesss is that I would have no rust here if the foam was not there. The condition of the foam will give you an accurate picture of the state of this part of the bulkhead too.

David
Image 1992 Sovereign 3.2 diamond blue (1993 model)

david
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Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby david » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:36 am

naki_k wrote:very thorough and impressive work david. you must be pleased with the relatively rapid progress.
i can see they have scraped out all that stupid white sponge/ foam, from inside the corner cavity. pure evil that stuff.
i think the dinitrol shareholders will be delighted with their dividends after this car is completed.
isn't the brown shading area around the heater intake, surface rust too?

am loving the pink "comfort blanket" too ;) i hope its protecting your spotless engine bay adequately. i need something similar, as i made a bit of mess in my bay after my weldathon.



I am pleased with the way it is going, particularly in terms of speed given they have been delayed by waiting for a part to arrive. That sponge is just rediculous; I can see no purpose for it and it is a real rust trap. The brown shading looks like rust in the photos but is actually some waxy deposits which have a dusting of rust stuck on to them, presumably from cutting into the scuttle top. I intend to remove it all before the top panel is welded on again. There are several layers to go yet!

The blanket is good isn't it - a real comfort blanket for my poor shivering Sovver! It is reasonably effective at keeping the engine clean but I suspect some engine dusting will be needed. :D

David
Image 1992 Sovereign 3.2 diamond blue (1993 model)

david
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Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby david » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:47 am

nlcrane wrote:It is really commendable the love and effort you guys put into caring for your motors, not to mention the inevitable financial costs involved and all this to preserve these wonderful old ladies that we all seem to be so infatuated with.
This makes me realise how extremely lucky I was to get hold of Sovereign in the mint condition that she is in and believe me I will do my utmost to keep her that way.
Excellent photos David, it is great to be able to follow the change back to pristine state.


I love the old beast and decided some time ago that although it would be more sensible to buy another better one, that I was too much a sentimental fool for this to work and that any replacement just wouldn't be the same because it would not carry any memories for me. I also managed to convince myself that there aren’t that many rust free cars left anyway, and when they do come up they are not cheap. Oh the power of delusions!

Timing is everything with cars and you were lucky to come across your Sovereign at the right moment – when you wanted to buy a car. Yours has a superb combination of the very highest specification, rarity and a very pleasing colour, together with being in genuinely excellent condition. I’m sure I wasn’t the only one here who was shocked by just how good your car is behind the front wings. It’s amazing. Cars like that are hard to find.

David
Image 1992 Sovereign 3.2 diamond blue (1993 model)

david
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Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: '92 Sovereign: Rust and restoration

Postby david » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:53 am

drce wrote:That must have been a big relief given the scene of devastation you were expecting.

It usually works the other way round;car looks lovely and shiny on the surface but hides a myriad of problems underneath.

Also, your enyclopaedic knowledge of the car will now extend to inner wings/bulkhead etc - you may be on your way to guru status!

I can't wait to see the finished article - have you got a completion date?


God yes!! :lol: I have been really quite worried about the inner part of the bulkhead since I pressed my finger into the hole and felt the innards collapse! This part of the car's construction is triple skinned, so the metal I felt crunching must have been the remains of one or more of those skins as they gave way under the weight of my finger.

I don’t have a completion date, but I feel it will be fairly soon. Gray is very rapid when he gets stuck in. He and Dave are hard working guys, even though they pretend they’re not!!

I’m still some way from Guru status yet!! ;)

David
Image 1992 Sovereign 3.2 diamond blue (1993 model)