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New front wings - in fibreglass!

Listing of rare XJ40 parts and where to find them
Elsa_jag
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Posts: 1155
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Location: Hunnington, West Midlands

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby Elsa_jag » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:53 am

carlmt wrote:OK folks!!!

Was down with my fabricator this morning discussing the possibilities / feasibilities / costs etc. of producing XJ40 wings and sunroofs in fibreglass.

Now - this chap, as I said before, is a craftsman and I would have no concerns about his work myself, but what he told me really got my interest.

No problem at all apparently - cost per side for the mould would be £200 (so £400 for the tools for two wings) and a pair of wings, finished in white gel-coat....................

£250 the pair.

He needs to see first hand what the sunroof is like to be able to quote accurately, but it would most likely be two parts (one being the outer skin and the other the frame) bonded in the shop ready to paint and fit.

What we need now - for the wings - is a pair of good, straight wings; not repaired or dented in any way, for use as the patterns for the tools. These wings will not be damaged in any way as the coating applied before the lay-up of the gel-coat and glass is benign.

As for the cost of the tooling, I will make this investment myself.

Views?

CT 8-)


Sounds like an excellent alternative to repaired wings to me.
Regards, Carl

ImageImage
Elsa_1994 3.2 s/ 61000 miles/ VIN 698892
http://xj40.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1195

rvdz
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Posts: 1854
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:30 pm
Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby rvdz » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:18 pm

Definitely, great alternative! Im definitely interested!
Roel

1994 Sovereign 4.0 Auto [698760]

naki_k
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Posts: 27837
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby naki_k » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:51 am

Good update.
A few points to note. There are three different wings used on Xj40! Not just one!
The difference being the holes to accommodate the indicators.
86-90 rectangular smoked indicators
90-93 orange cubes
94 flat orange rectangular (X300 style).

Small details, but I don’t think anyone buying the wings would want to be modifying them to fit their indicators? So how would this effect things having to make three different variations?
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 3.2 XJ6 SportPack Manual
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
93 6.0 XJ81 DD6
93 6.0 XJ81 XJ12
94 4.0 XJR
96 4.0 X306 XJR
96 4.0 X300 D6
97 4.0 X300 Sport Manual
2000 LR Discovery ES TD5 A
Breaking 40/ 300

carlmt
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Location: Redditch, Worcestershire

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby carlmt » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:07 am

Good point about the indicators.

To incorporate the minor difference in these indicators would be dis-proportionally expensive - there would need to be three moulds for each side of the car. Therefore, instead of a car set of tools costing £400, the price would jump to £1200. This would clearly impact upon the retail price needed to recoup the investment - and my ability to fund that investment at this time.

My view would be that the finished fibreglass wing would have a locating dimple moulded in corresponding to the central location of the indicator opening and a template supplied for the purchaser to cut out the required opening dependent upon what is needed. To be honest, cutting the required hole in the fibreglass wing would not be a difficult or time-consuming job and, with care, could be done in less than an hour. Certainly not as onerous as having to repair a steel wing with patches welded in and then skimming over with filler. The costs and benefits of the f/g route in this manner, in my view, far outweigh the ideas of repairing used wings. I know that using f/g panels is looked down upon but we have to look to the immediate and middle term future here if we want to keep our cars respectable - I doubt that JCP are going to produce steel versions anytime soon and, if they did, the cost (at least initially) is going to be outside the pocket of the majority of the owners and, lets be frank here, the value of the majority of XJ40's would not justify the expense at the moment.

Who know what the values will be in the future, but I cannot see them getting to E-Type levels!

CT 8-)
1990 Daimler 4.0 638778
First registered 01.01.1991
Image

Aidan
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Tonbridge, Kent

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby Aidan » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:02 pm

carlmt wrote:Good point about the indicators.

To incorporate the minor difference in these indicators would be dis-proportionally expensive - there would need to be three moulds for each side of the car. Therefore, instead of a car set of tools costing £400, the price would jump to £1200. This would clearly impact upon the retail price needed to recoup the investment - and my ability to fund that investment at this time.

My view would be that the finished fibreglass wing would have a locating dimple moulded in corresponding to the central location of the indicator opening and a template supplied for the purchaser to cut out the required opening dependent upon what is needed. To be honest, cutting the required hole in the fibreglass wing would not be a difficult or time-consuming job and, with care, could be done in less than an hour. Certainly not as onerous as having to repair a steel wing with patches welded in and then skimming over with filler. The costs and benefits of the f/g route in this manner, in my view, far outweigh the ideas of repairing used wings. I know that using f/g panels is looked down upon but we have to look to the immediate and middle term future here if we want to keep our cars respectable - I doubt that JCP are going to produce steel versions anytime soon and, if they did, the cost (at least initially) is going to be outside the pocket of the majority of the owners and, lets be frank here, the value of the majority of XJ40's would not justify the expense at the moment.

Who know what the values will be in the future, but I cannot see them getting to E-Type levels!

CT 8-)


I think you're right about cutting holes for different indicators. It sounds like an easy enough job and well worth the effort considering what one would end up with at the end.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Thanks for doing the legwork on this, Carl.
Aidan

1994 Moroccan Red XJ40 3,2 Sport ("Ruby")
1995 Jade Green X300 3,2 Sovereign ("Jade")
2005 Cedar Green Pearl Volvo XC 90 SE

naki_k
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby naki_k » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:52 am

Good points Carl. If you think that’s a workable solution without inflating costs.

I think you are correct though. In the absence of any new parts, then other solutions will need to be sort. The amount of 40s needing new wings now must be significant, if not the majority?
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 3.2 XJ6 SportPack Manual
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
93 6.0 XJ81 DD6
93 6.0 XJ81 XJ12
94 4.0 XJR
96 4.0 X306 XJR
96 4.0 X300 D6
97 4.0 X300 Sport Manual
2000 LR Discovery ES TD5 A
Breaking 40/ 300

naki_k
Super Moderator
Posts: 27837
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby naki_k » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:58 pm

We have the answer to one question then now.
What would wings cost to make new out of steel?
The answer, £950, each!


https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british ... -1994.html
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 3.2 XJ6 SportPack Manual
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
93 6.0 XJ81 DD6
93 6.0 XJ81 XJ12
94 4.0 XJR
96 4.0 X306 XJR
96 4.0 X300 D6
97 4.0 X300 Sport Manual
2000 LR Discovery ES TD5 A
Breaking 40/ 300

Aidan
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Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Tonbridge, Kent

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby Aidan » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:01 pm

naki_k wrote:We have the answer to one question then now.
What would wings cost to make new out of steel?
The answer, £950, each!


https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british ... -1994.html


:o That's more than my car cost... and it's got two fenders on it already :D ;)
Aidan

1994 Moroccan Red XJ40 3,2 Sport ("Ruby")
1995 Jade Green X300 3,2 Sovereign ("Jade")
2005 Cedar Green Pearl Volvo XC 90 SE

naki_k
Super Moderator
Posts: 27837
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Kirton, nr Boston, Lincolnshire

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby naki_k » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:37 am

Aidan wrote:
naki_k wrote:We have the answer to one question then now.
What would wings cost to make new out of steel?
The answer, £950, each!


https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british ... -1994.html


:o That's more than my car cost... and it's got two fenders on it already :D ;)


Thats pretty much the standard argument right there for many owners. So not until all the cars are worth/ cost much more will people likely be willing to spend those numbers.
Ironically the cars worth the most, are less likely to need the wings.
Still, they have been made, they are out there should someone have a special car that must have new parts. i wonder if the cost may come down over time when they recoup the outlay maybe?
out of interest, the last known price on new wings from Jaguar way back when, i seem got remember seeing £175+VAT. If anyone can verify that. Though thats distinctly a very Old Stock price for sure!
88 3.6 XJ6 PDH/CEM
90 Range Rover Vogue SE 3.9 V8 LPG
91 3.2 XJ6 SportPack Manual
91 4.0 XJ6 Manual
92 4.0 XJR Manual
92 4.0 XJR
93 3.2s - 4.0 Manual conv
93 4.0 Sovereign
93 6.0 XJ81 DD6
93 6.0 XJ81 XJ12
94 4.0 XJR
96 4.0 X306 XJR
96 4.0 X300 D6
97 4.0 X300 Sport Manual
2000 LR Discovery ES TD5 A
Breaking 40/ 300

SovverBovver
Snr Member
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:36 pm
Location: In a garage

Re: New front wings - in fibreglass!

Postby SovverBovver » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:27 pm

naki_k wrote:We have the answer to one question then now.
What would wings cost to make new out of steel?
The answer, £950, each!


They labelled those wings "rare" so no doubt there's a lot of profit included in that price. I'm sure if/when some fibreglass competition emerges those wings will come down to something more realistic.

Looks like they know how to make money: check out this price for a V12 fuel injector: £992.75

https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british ... 52906.html

(At least they offer a re-con exchange injector for ~£95 but even that can be obtained more cost effectively.)
1992 Jaguar Sovereign


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