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L399GYP 1993 3.2S

NMV 1E
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Location: Lydiate, Merseyside.

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby NMV 1E » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:40 pm

Reaches out for medication .................................................................. :shock:
Life begins at Forty !... I was born with nothing, I seem to have most of it left.


2006 Baby Blue Hyundai Getz 1.4 CDX, Auto (yes I know, I know, but you'd be surprised, I was !)
1989 White and Navy Blue V.W. Golf Cabriolet (G.T.i.)

donkeyotty
North Wales Rep
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Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby donkeyotty » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:07 am

Just looked again in great length at these pictures and I totally agree with Vince’s diagnosis and plan of treatment. The worst areas of the bulkhead are indeed the lower piece under the repair panel ( which I call the firewall ) the root cause of the damage there being caused by the spot weld joint between the two.
That insulating pad also causes untold damage by holding water and causing further carnage.
The sound of the firewall tearing away from itself when I pulled out my HVAC unit is not something I will forget in a hurry.
1994 Regency Red 4.0 Sovereign M117FVC Chassis 705979
1993 Volvo 940 2.0 Turbo Wentworth Estate (Daily)

donkeyotty
North Wales Rep
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Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby donkeyotty » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:27 am

Your corrosion is spookingly similar to mine......
Image
1994 Regency Red 4.0 Sovereign M117FVC Chassis 705979
1993 Volvo 940 2.0 Turbo Wentworth Estate (Daily)

Walker
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Posts: 279
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Location: Inverness

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby Walker » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:24 pm

Very similar Don I was glad it wasn't as bad as one picture that struck the fear in me a few years ago of a breaker car on here :shock: . I'm a bit conflicted about the panel, in one hand if I left any of it in position, it would bug me that it could potentially be the next bit to go. The other, if I took the whole thing out an amalgamated panel could be put together and welded into place, with the whole plenum being exposed for treatment. The lower panel of the 'firewall' will need a good bit of work, but removing the upper panel would expose the whole top edge to work up to. Already decided on the paint for the internal areas of the plenum, the name escapes me just now but it is a very high solid content aluminium zinc phosphate primer, I've had the job of removing it from the inside of offshore water tanks a few times, it's incredibly well suited to the job!

SLIGHT distraction at work today seeing a whole bench covered in fine looking parts, thought oh aye some more ready to to go back out... hang on they're jag bits... oh, they're mine! Pictures to follow in the week.
Kingfisher Blue '40 1993 3.2S #690760 L399GYP

donkeyotty
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Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby donkeyotty » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:38 pm

Yep it is 6 of one and half dozen of the other, but whichever way you do it the car will be better for it. As long as the rust is cut out though you should be good to go with plenty of primer on the remaining original metal. My seam between the lower panel and upper panel was in better condition than yours, exposing that whole joint for repair and protection looks to be a priority.
I used a rich zinc grey primer on top of etch primer and finished with a top coat to cover the repairs.
Looking forward to pictures of the shiny bits. 8-)
1994 Regency Red 4.0 Sovereign M117FVC Chassis 705979
1993 Volvo 940 2.0 Turbo Wentworth Estate (Daily)

Walker
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Posts: 279
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Location: Inverness

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby Walker » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:05 pm

Right then after mulling it over for most of the week I finally decided to 'extract' the entire panel. Spot welds drilled out along the lower half but the top row joining to the windscreen panel I've drilled right through ready for plug welds upon refitting. I'm not sure how I'm best to weld in the bottom if the panel. The steel even in an overlap form is still a bit thin for seam welding. I think the jaguar service sheet had it right in the idea of a continuous bond albeit in adhesive would stop the water seeping in the gap. What's the vibe toward the bottom edge being held in with seam sealer and bolts?

Anyway, here are a few shots of how today went. First lot show the exposed plenum immediately after removing the panel. If you opt to remove yours, this is a great opportunity to recite every foul word you know in different orders!
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There was a good amount of a bitumen type product flicked about behind there. I ended up wiping it out with a petrol soaked rag, at least there will be a week for that to dry up before any sparks start! So after a clean up it looked a bit better, easier to keep the optimism up when things are tidy.

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Panel ends were finally chopped out, anyone doing so will find the last 3 spot welds are under another panel and to get to them you'd be into some serious structural work. I opted to save any of that and used a tungsten rasp bit and grind them away. The ends of the new panel will just bend around 180 and fit against the bonnet catch panel.

The old panel put up quite a fight but eventually surrendered. The lower edge is as expected and looking at the contact surface of the sending bulkhead I think taking it all put was a smart move. I called it a day early on as i don't like going mental with the grinder on a sunday especially being a stone's throw away from the church.

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Initial prodding and poking at the raw ends eventually led to cutting out the first of the bad stuff. The white foam in the cavity was damp, only slightly, but I doubt the car has been wet for at least 8 months, which is interesting. Safe to say that has been taken out, and the first tickle with drill mounted wire brushes has gone on to reveal it to be fairly decent in there.

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The only perforation I could find in the chamber itself is circled above, right up at the end on the driver side. Maybe these don't just rot out at the bottom after all! Lots more grinding to do, which is no doubt going to be the case for a while yet. Plenty of loctite rust remedy to chuck about under the scuttle ends once a bit more has been cleaned up.

I finished up drinking tea and looking at the car I had wanted since I was 14. Currently sat in a lot of bits looking to the neighbours I'm sure as a lost cause. Hopefully this is as dramatic a job I'll ever need to do on her, save the rear suspension refurb that is obviously moving up the list. All in the name of preservation! Just keep telling myself that :)
Kingfisher Blue '40 1993 3.2S #690760 L399GYP

donkeyotty
North Wales Rep
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Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby donkeyotty » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:34 am

Well it certainly seems like removing the whole panel was the correct decision and fair play for attempting and completing the task. Plenty to do but it already appears you are well on the way with it.
Further to your point regarding only finding one hole in the chamber itself though, the joint made from the plenum (repair) panel and the lower panel (firewall) was only ever created by spot welds, never could hold water, so would have leaked water into the cabin virtually from day one. This combined with the sponge abilities of the copious insulation pads meant that the firewall was doomed from the start.
Brilliant pictures Jason, a very useful work of reference.
1994 Regency Red 4.0 Sovereign M117FVC Chassis 705979
1993 Volvo 940 2.0 Turbo Wentworth Estate (Daily)

carlmt
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Location: Redditch, Worcestershire

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby carlmt » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:02 pm

Very interesting watching this unfold.

One comment if I may - I notice that your windscreen has a rather unfortunate crack in the lower drivers side corner. I would advocate removing that screen as soon as - and certainly before welding up the new panels - as, pound to a penny, the metal beneath the edge of the windscreen will need rectifying. It looks to me as rusting has caused the winsdcreen to crack.

C
1990 Daimler 4.0 638778
First registered 01.01.1991
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Brake buster
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Location: Gloucester UK

Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby Brake buster » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:19 pm

i think you'll find that ' crack ' is a reflection ?

BB
1994 3.2S in Morocco red and Doeskin/Ruby red interior
1989 V12 XJS White with Mulberry interior
2004 2.1 X-Type Platinum with Champagne Leather interior

previously ,
1999 V8 Sovereign in Seafrost with Oatmeal and Antelope interior

Walker
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Re: L399GYP 1993 3.2S

Postby Walker » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:16 pm

Had to go and check the car after reading that! No crack just a reflection, the screen is in the early throws of delaminating at the very bottom of the drivers corner. I'm in negotiations with the wife regarding a new screen, potentially heated as I've seen it done on here using a 308 screen and loom. The one currently in L3 would be going into another top secret motor that I've not told you about ok ;) My beloved Springer spaniel has just used up the best part of 600 quid after deciding he was probably as quick going through a gate than over it (literally) chasing a deer. Safe to say the screen moves down the list.

The plug welds along the top edge will be done over an afternoon with plenty of tea. The repairs to the edges at the screen corners will be done with TIG process so not just MIG'd to bits, a lot more control that way. The distance between the edge and screen is plenty to allow any heat expansion in remaining good steel to dissipate before causing stress in the glass. Screen will of course be covered with 3/4" rubber flooring from a horsebox cunningly repurposed!

Much appreciated praise, Don. I hope at least the pictures provide a glimpse of what others may run into. Funny thing is that I didn't think it would be as bad, so if anybody has one worse than I'd get into it while there is still somthing to weld onto!
Kingfisher Blue '40 1993 3.2S #690760 L399GYP